AFTER GALILEO BACK IN ITALY II
ANSWERS TO "BARTOCCI INQUIRY"
Aspden
Bartocci
Bergman
Galeczki
Gruffat
Guy
Hasslberger
Kelly
Larson
Macri’ (Italian)
Marmet
McCarthy
Monti (Italian)
Muller
Munch
Pappas
Phipps
(Selleri)
Spavieri
Spolter
Theocharis
Tolchel’nikova
Wesley
INTRODUCTION
On May 1999 the international conference"Galileo Back in
Italy II" took place in Bologna, mostly aimed to discuss criticism against
Special (and General) Relativity.
Here it is the conference’s announcement:
International Conference "Galileo Back in Italy - II"
For the Return of Rationality in Modern Physics
Bologna, Italy, 26-28 May 1999
In spite of great technological success, physics at the
end of the century has come under more and more criticism. It is charged
with having lost its character as an experimental science, becoming too
abstract and mathematical.
P.K. Feyerabend considers this science mostly "very dull,
and more deceptive, than that of XVI or XVII centuries was". R. Thom remarks
that in it there is "a horrible mixture between incorrect fundamental concepts
and a fantastic numerical precision", pretending to get "very rigorous
numerical results from theories which conceptually are nonsense".
The unquestionable practical success of physics has actually
minimized the critical interest in fundamental postulates and their interpretation,
so that there is a whole series of conceptual riddles which force a re-examination
of the foundations of physics today.
Roughly speaking, these fall into two great schemes: the
relativistic, and quantum theories. In both, the common notions of space,
time and causality are so deeply modified, that a whole new philosophy
has been built in order to support the view that Nature cannot be explained
by classical principles of rationality, built upon the three intellectual
categories.
As Nobel prize winner R.P. Feynman asserts, one has to
"accept Nature as She is - absurd". The renouncing of the "adaequatio rei
et intellectus", which should be the primary aim of any scientific research,
has led to the result that the great majority of physicists have lost all
hope of being able to understand Nature. Instead, an unpleasant kind of
resignation has taken over.
But a critical reaction is developing. Criticism of the
"Copenhagen Interpretation" of quantum mechanics had begun already in the
70s; that of "special" relativity has endured since 1905, but it was always
vehemently and systematically suppressed, to the point that this theory
has now become "the holy of holies" of modern physics. But the very success
of Einstein’s point of view has insinuated into the heart of physics, the
arbitrary definitions typical of modern formalistic mathematics with its
presumption to be free, in its conceptual foundations, from any kind of
intuition.
Furthermore, the disappearance of the concept of an ether,
as a result to the Einsteinian "solution" of electromagnetic problems,
has made it impossible to prove that in the physical properties of "empty
space" there might be an argument against the claims of inexplicability
of microphysical phenomena.
We ask all scientists who find some reasonable elements in the above, to take part in the international conference, which will take place in Bologna, Italy, May 26-28, 1999.
For further information please contact:
Umberto Bartocci Roberto Monti
Dipartimento di Matematica Università Istituto TESRE - CNR
Via Vanvitelli, 1 Via P. Gobetti, 101
06100 Perugia - Italy 40129 Bologna - Italy
Tel.: 0039-075-5002494 Tel.: 0039-051-6398702
Fax: 0039-075-5855024 Fax: 0039-051-6398724
E-mail: bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it E-mail: monti@tesre.bo.cnr.it
Scientific Committee: Umberto Bartocci, Patrick Cornille, George Galeczki, Rocco Vittorio Macrì, Roberto Monti, James Paul Wesley.
The Conference is sponsored by the Monti America Corporation.
[This announcement appeared in "21st Century Science & Technology",
Vol. 12, N. 1, Spring 1999, pp. 86-87]
The conference was a very interesting event, since it allowed to gather up together and to make personally know each other many relativity dissidents. Nevertheless, the assembler of this "virtual book", Umberto Bartocci, felt that a great part of the presented criticism was diminished by some misinterpretation of Einstein’s theories, and felt himself obliged to produce for the forthcoming "Proceedings" of the conference a paper intitled "Most common misunderstandings about Special Relativity". Furthermore, after an epistular exchange with James Paul Wesley (which is here enclosed), he sent, either by Internet or by mail, the following "Inquiry" to many phyisicists known for their critical aptitude towards the present foundations of physics.
"Dear friend,
shortly after the Bologna’s meeting, I received a letter from James
Paul Wesley in which he asserted, between other things, that:
"Contrary to your apparent belief, "special relativity" presents obvious horrendous mathematical contradictions and errors, as pointed out by thousands of individuals since 1905 onward".
I answered to him saying that "after 20 years of study of the question, and to my best knowledge, I have found that all presumed "contradictions" were just due to misinterpretations of relativity from the side of the relativity detractors. I have written in a hurry the inclosed paper for the Bologna’s Proceedings, even with the aim of a public answer to you, and to all our friends, who unfortunately insist in defending wrong sides of this question. Of course, I can have made some mistake, and then I would be happy to know which".
Furthermore, I asked to him:
1) could you choose the best argument against relativity between this thousand that you say (and I mean now a mathematical contradiction which has already been put in evidence by somebody in the past)?
2) what is, in your opinion, the actual best argument (whether experimental, or theoretical, or logical, or mathematical, as you wish) that one could produce today against relativity?
I added I would have proposed to answer to these same questions even to other friends fighting our same battle (but not necessarily), and so I send to you this letter, and the aforesaid paper, hoping that you will be willing to help me in this inquiry (and to correct my possible mistakes).
Thank you very much indeed for your attention,
best greetings from yours most sincerely
Perugia, 15 July 1999
Umberto Bartocci"
This "challenge" originated a very intense and interesting exchange of opinions, of which thereafter you have a record (which, in general, does not include successive comments).
Have a nice reading.
November 1999 (Umberto Bartocci)
HAROLD ASPDEN
Subject: Re: Your inquiry.
Date:
Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:08:11 +0100
From: haspdn@globalnet.co.uk
To:
"umberto bartocci" <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Dear Professor Bartocci,
When I first read your message inviting comment as to the validity of SRT I decided not to comment. However, I later have had occasion to send an E-Mail comment to David Bergman who also received your message, but on the subject of inertia, rather than SRT. I think it is appropriate to send you a copy of a follow-up message that I have just sent him, as I make reference to your communication.
The message reads:
Thank you for your prompt response to my comments on inertia.
I will respond more fully when I have had time to digest the reference
you
gave to the CSS Web Site.
I did not join in the exchanges on the SRT issue raised by Umberto Bartocci but I do offer the following comments and will send a copy of this message to him.
Einstein introduced his theory of relativity back in 1905 by a paper on Electrodynamics and one on Inertia. The latter was entitled: 'Does the Inertia of a Body depend upon its Energy Content?' The popular opinion of the scientific community is that proof of the relationship E=Mc(squared) is proof of Einstein's theory. I have never accepted that, because the relationship is derivable from classical 19th century theory. One obtained E = 3/4 times Mc(squared) by following J J Thomson's teachings on the subject as applied to an electron, but he assumed that the charge was all confined to a spherical surface, as if the charge form were a conductive sphere in the laboratory. One can easily show that, if the charge is distributed inside that sphere so as to set up a constant electrostatic pressure within that sphere, then that 3/4 factor becomes unity and the normal E=Mc(squared) formula results.
So, the issue of whether SRT is valid or not depends upon other evidence and, to my mind, the notion that it explains the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment is not such evidence. The physics community today is getting all excited about Bose-Einstein Condensation (BEC), the perfect quantum fluid which, by experiments on the Quantized Hall Effect, gives us a wonderful way of measuring the fine-structure constant. The theory I developed for that constant some 40 and more years ago is an aether model closely resembling that quantum fluid. The theory gave the fine-structure constant to part per million accuracy and that theoretical finding, confirmed by computer analysis by The National Measurement Laboratory in Australia, was reported by that laboratory in 1972 in Physics Letters. So the aether is a perfect quantum fluid. In the 19th century it was thought the aether exhibited the properties of a solid and of a fluid, a confusing proposition, so Einstein abolished the need for the aether when he first appeared on the scene back in 1905. He can be excused for not appreciating at the time that the properties of the fluid crystal if attributed as a perfect quantum fluid form in the aether could explain that Michelson-Morley finding. Not surprisingly we have since seen the computer industry build on the use of fluid crystal technology and we are seeing fundamental metrology concerning h, c and e using the version of that adaptable and structured charge system in low temperature semiconductor technology based on the Bose-Einstein condensate.
That said, I admit I have no real patience with the struggle to argue
the pros and cons of SRT and the effort to find a winner amongst a forum
of the 1000 objections mentioned by Professor Bartocci. However,
in view of your concern with inertia and my note to you on that subject,
I will just draw attention to a short phrase in each of those 1905 papers
by Einstein. In section 10 of the Electrodynamics paper he writes
under the heading 'Dynamics of the Slowly Accelerated Electron' and along
comes the sentence:
'As the electron is to be slowly accelerated, and consequently may
not give off any energy in the form of radiation, the energy withdrawn
from the electrostatic field must be put down as equal to the energy of
motion of the electron.'
Now, surely that is an absurd statement. How can therelativistic
mass formula which he derives depend upon the history of the electron's
acceleration always involving slow acceleration? Where does the threshold
set in between 'slow' and 'fast enough for radiation to occur'?
It destroys his whole case, though my argument that an electron cannot
radiate its energy at all can save the situation linking relativistic mass
increase and E=Mc(squared). However, as you will have seen, my argument,
then gives directly that E=Mc(squared) formula without needing Einstein's
transformation theory. So then we come to his 1905 paper on Inertia and,
to one's extreme surprise, we find he derives an equation concerning which
he immediately notes: 'If a body gives off energy L in the form of radiation,
its mass diminishes by L/c(squared).' I submit, therefore, that here in
the same year 1905 he presented two papers which contradict one another,
but yet he has carried the scientific world with him on this energy-mass
relationship and left the good work of J J Thomson on this topic to be
buried along with the aether. So my message to Professor Bartocci
is to say that the best case against SRT is Einstein's own words, his contradicting
assertions on the subject of relativistic mass and the inertia of energy
which are to be found in his 1905 papers! Einstein's theory of relativity
is best forgotten, but Einstein's good name looks like it can carry due
weight in connection with the 'Bose-Einstein Condensate'.
That is if the physics community ever wake up to the fact that they
are getting close to having produced a laboratory model that replicates
the true form of the real aether, having, on the one hand, the laboratory
experiment which measures the basic quantum regulator, the fine-structure
constant, and, on the other hand, but hidden from view, the real aether
which truly determines that constant and regulates the electron activity
in atoms.
With best regards,
Harold Aspden
UMBERTO BARTOCCI
[From a letter to George Galeczki]
I would prefer instead to make some final considerations about the points which were at the beginning of our exchange of opinions, hoping not only that doing so my personal position in this occasion will be no more misunderstood, - as somebody did, as I would have become a supporter of relativity! - but mostly hoping that at last we will be able to share some important starting point for our common critics to nowadays physics.
One should not forget that it all started with some opinions of Wesley, which I found outstandingly wrong, outside any possibility of "freedom of thought".
(A) First big mistake, at the historical-sociological level:
"I would like to take exception to the claim that the majority of physicists
still believe in special relativity [SR]: according to my actual pole,
sampling over 100 physicists’ beliefs, less than 5 percent still believe
in special relativity. Why discuss a dead issue? Why beat a dead horse?"
(27.Mar.99)
Quite on the contrary, I remember for instance Santilli’s
efforts to introduce at least a "scientific ethics" in the scientific world
(namely, just to quote some suggestion: not to reject a priori the publication
of counter-current papers, remember as scientists the duty to answer to
criticism, and so on), and he estimated at the time that less than 1 over
2000 answered positively to his call! The truth is that the greatest majority
of physicists believe that ONLY A CRANK WOULD CHALLENGE EINSTEIN, and that
they believe that we all are a little crazy!!
Perhaps I am wrong, and it is true that only 5% of physicists
control the minds of the other 90% (I leave apart, rather optimistically,
the 5%, taking into consideration our small active group!), but then the
"scandal" would be even greater than everybody on the Earth would have
ever dreamt of! The plain "fact", under everybody’s eyes, is that relativity
is always there, considered by common belief as one of the greatest scientific
achievement of our century, and perhaps of all times: a theory "without
the shadow of a doubt" (Clifford Will), or in which "a doubt would be the
same as a doubt about Copernican system" (Tullio Regge).
(B) second mistake, at the logical-mathematical level:
"Contrary to your apparent belief, SR presents obvious horrendous mathematical
contradictions and errors, as pointed out by thousands of individuals since
1905 onward."
(4.Jul.99)
As you know, I have made this opinion the object of an explicit question in my questionary. Well, not one of these thousand "contradictions" came out until now! Wesley sent to me the indication that, in his opinion: "The Lorentz transformation do not even form a group in 3 space and 1 time dimension" (4.Aug.99), which is really unbelievable, since one introduces "by definition" a "Lorentz group", as a (big) subgroup of Poincare’s group! To this objection I answered in my mail of 13.Aug.99, saying that "Lorentz transformations are "by definition" the so-called homogeneous isometries [time-orientation preserving], and Wesley perhaps simply confuses the special Lorentz transformations with the general Lorentz transformations. It is obvious that when you take the simplest case of Lor. transf., the ones which are in all textbooks, with y’=y and z’=z, you are simply considering a subgroup of the whole Lorentz group, and when you take for instance x’=x and z’=z then you get another subgroup, which is different from the first one! - so, when you multiply one transf. which is in one subgroup with a transf. which is in the other subgroup, then you obviously get a transf. which is not in both subgroups! This is simple group theory, that one learns in the 1st year of the university, and it cannot be a matter of opinion!".
You tried to give me another one of these arguments (I would like to say, pseudo-arguments!), I mean your reference to an argument contained in a book by Walter Theimer, a scientist unknown to me (your fax of 23.Jul.99). But then that argument was not, to say the least, very clear, and in truth you too acknowledged immediately this circumstance: "My yesterday evening comment on your question 1 is incomplete, thus not efficient" (fax of 24.Jul.99). Furthermore, you admitted at last that: "SR is indeed a nightmare, but a physical, rather than a mathematical one"; and that: "I understand your feelings very well, since many SR critics are wrong, and since errors from the side of critics are amplified by the asymmetry of the situation" (mail of 23.Aug.99).
With these last words, you gave me reason twice, acknowledging not only the presence of many errors in our field, but even the "asymmetry" of the situation. The truth is that we are just a few against a multitude, a multitude which Wesley estimates 5% !! May I add that, if it is very human to make mistakes, why however should one insist so much on them?, after all this would be counter-productive for the whole our "cause" against SR...
(C) third mistake, at the experimental-physical level:
"You make the strange claim that SR can explain the old stuff, the
empirical facts, of Roemer, Bradley, Sagnac, etc.; whereas, in fact, SR
flatly and explicitly contradicts these facts."
(27.Mar.99)
Here the question becomes to be more interesting from a scientific point of view, and important. I admit that there is some possibility that I am wrong, but as far as that matter like the majority of other physicists and mathematicians! But until now I did not receive any specifical technical indication that some single line, some single computation, in my paper "Most common misunderstandings..." was wrong. I do not take into account philosophical, epistemological, and so on, objections, in which I include for instance your objection that: "an IFR has to be a massive structure" (your mail of 9.Aug.99). With such a kind of "requirements" that a physical theory should satisfy, I do very often agree, but I even believe that it is useless to express our dissatisfaction between us. We all in our small group would perhaps agree, but the point is to persuade of this dissatisfaction other people, and that can be only achieved by showing that SR is plainly wrong from the experimental point of view (there is no possibility to question the "logical" validity of SR!!), either in some of its assumptions, or in some of its predictions, but it will not be an easy task!
[After all, let me say that, if Wesley’s opinions were true, then all our efforts would be very much diminished, since the struggle against relativity would be very easy to be carried on, which is definitively not true!! To defeat relativity would be instead a major task in the history of the scientific thought, even for all general cultural consequences that it would have...]
I wish to point out that the last words of Wesley concern an assertion about SR ("SR flatly and explicitly contradicts these facts"), and not about any physical truth, and so they can be discussed with rigorous logical mathematical methodology, without any concern about "experiments" and so on. Of course, since this is an assertion about what SR could foresee or not, its proof should presume in advance that the man who is doing that assertion has well understood what SR is, and how one can deduce right consequences from its postulates - but this, I must frankly confess it, in my now very long experience, is a task that most anti-relativistic physicists seem unable to do correctly! I ask to you again, for instance, what are your comments about the Remark at the end of my section 5, which was one of the most outstanding Stefan’s mistake - and it was even published in a printed form! - one of those great misunderstandings about the exact meaning of relativistic concepts, in which I see that unfortunately many other friends fall in?! (and excuse, but let me say that even the alleged "symmetry" of the travel of the two "twins" is one of these great misunderstandings - but, please, why one should wish to win the battle against Einstein using this kind of "weak" arguments, and not to go into the real battle-field, that of the experiments, like for instance Cornille does, and, just to quote one possibility, of the presumed "symmetry" of the electromagnetic phenomenology?!)
I hope that you will acknowledge that about Bradley’s aberration, in particular, you seemed at first willing to defend Wesley’s opinion, for instance when you sayed that: "According to SR, Doppler-effect and stellar aberration are companion effects. The Doppler effect, however, is a function of relative velocity, while Bradley’s aberration is a function of the orbital velocity of the earth around the sun, but clearly the relative velocity earth-star is different from the orbital earth’s velocity" (your fax of 18.Jun.99). I believe to have answered quite well to this objection in my paper (see in particular Remark 1 in section 7), showing that in relativity aberraton is just a "differential" effect, and that there is in fact a difference between the classical and the relativistic point of view, but unfortunately experiments aimed to find what point of view would exactly be true are impossible to be performed!
[I believe that a possibility to check whether "relativistic aberration" is true or not - remember that SR prescribes just the invariance of the "speed" of light from the velocity of the source, and not of the "velocity" of light! - is described in footnote N. 21 of my paper: "This phenomenon could perhaps be the conceptual ground for some experiment aimed to compare SR’s predictions with analogous aether-theoretic expectations, since one could suppose that it would be natural, in an aether-frame, to have total independence of the light’s velocity from the velocity of the source. One could think for instance to use the circular platform of section N. 3 for sending a light’s ray from a directional laser source, placed in the border of the platform, towards the centre, and then to check whether this ray arrives exactly in this point, or it is instead dragged from the velocity, as SR would predict!"]
During our discussion, you said to me that I was excessive in the role I choosed of "advocatus diaboli", and I can admit that perhaps my action was "politically" inopportune, since it could have the effect to diminish rather than strengthen our group. But I deeply believe that if one makes so many obviously wrong assertions, then most of our possible interlocutors would totally reject any other claim from that person, and even from the whole party to which he belongs, namely all the anti-relativistic party, which I try to defend, and to make really grow up...
It remains to discuss the possible best strategy for defeating
relativity, and I wish to defend my proposed point of view (which does
not share any enthusiastic admiration for SR, as Wesley thinks!), starting
from a declaration coming from the "Annals of Physics", that one can find
in one of Stefan’s book ("The Thorny Way of Truth", Vol. I, p. 214): "As
you must surely realize, SR has been verified in an enormous number of
different experimental situations. Any attempt to modify it must therefore
not only demonstrate some deviation from experimental work but also must
show how the large body of supporting evidence can be reinterpreted or
shown to be incorrect. This is, I well recognize, an enormous task. But
the reinterpretation of the work of the last century need not to be expected
of minor importance".
As a matter of fact, I do not agree with this journal’s
aptitude, but I supposed that the previous words were in some sense true,
or enough true, not supposing that the physicists were all so deeply blind
or cheaters! Then, starting from this hypothetical truth, or even half
a truth, I tried:
- first, to find alternative explanations for the presumed "successes"
of relativity;
- second, to propose to look at some other phenomenology, different
from the usual one, in order to find experimental contradictions of relativity
with Nature.
Then, the only possibility which seemed practicable to
me, trying to avoid all usual well known objections of Einstein’s supporters,
was to point out the asymmetry of electromagnetic phenomenology. If there
was an "absolute velocity" of the Earth, of such a big order, as 300 Km/sec,
as you suppose, but even a smaller one, around 9 Km/sec, I think that it
should have be detected by electromagnetic experiments; but then neither
Cardone did find anything corresponding to a velocity of that size. Of
course, there is the possibility that even Maxwell electrodynamics, in
its "classical interpretation" - on which all the "predictions" known to
me are founded - is completely wrong, but then I cannot go personally
any further, since I do not know any other alternative theories (like for
instance Weber’s electrodynamics, and so on). I would be very curious to
see what other electrodynamics would predict for the interactions in the
classical "comoving cases", one of which has been carefully studied in
the paper "Symmetries and asymmetries...", by Mamone Capria and myself,
to which I often make reference. If these other theories too would foresee
a non zero effect, then one should start to accept indeed the possibility
that Descartes and Leibniz were not so wrong (and today Hayden, or Tewari),
and that the relative velocity earth-aether is zero, or very near to zero...
The other possibility left, the one which for instance
Monti supports, is that the previous assertion of "Annals of Physics" is
not true, and that relativity has not so many experiments in its favour
(perhaps not even a single one!), the contrary as it is written in every
textbook. It seems to me that even in some recent words of Selleri one
can see some hint that we are in front of a very big "fraud". Your words
are even more clear in this direction: "You seem to be more concerned with
your suspicions regarding some experiments of Marinov, than with the systematic
falsifications of the data by blackmailed and/or corrupted Einstein believers"
(your mail of 15.Aug.99). Perhaps this is true, but I just cannot accept
it "a priori" completely, because I continue to believe in some sense in
the objectivity of science, and in the moral qualities of scientists; a
world that after all I love, and I would be very surprised to have to acknowledge
instead that it is very corrupted, as the world of politics, of economy,
and of historians and press men...
I feel that the struggle in this second direction would
be harder than in the first one, but of course everybody is free to choose
the way he feels more corresponding to the "truth", and I sincerely wish
all success to all people trying to restore rationality in modern physics,
either in a way or in the other...
I thank you always very much for your attention,
best greetings, from yours most sincerely
Umberto Bartocci
Summing up:
1) There are no mathematical contradictions in SR, which is quite a coherent theory.
2) In order to defeat SR, one has to look for his possible experimental failures, which is perhaps a task not so easy, since it would requiry measurements performed in two different (almost) inertial reference frames really moving one with respect to the other. All alleged proofs in favour of SR are in my opinion INDIRECT proofs, most presuming that Earth is not at rest with respect to the "aether"; one should check more the validity of the principle of relativity for electromagnetic phenomena, the "induction" that forced Einstein to propose this principle is just a very special case in Maxwell theory, which in general is not relativistic, in its "classical" interpretation. Experiments of the kind of the so called "Rowlands inverse experiment", often discussed by Stefan Marinov and Francisco Muller, could perhaps show at last that SR is physically wrong.
In conclusion, I completely agree with Del Larson’s and McCarthy’s opinions below:
"If we try to come up with theoretical arguments to show how special relativity is wrong, we will lose. SR has been studied and celebrated for generations now. If there was a theoretical flaw it would have been found long ago ... from a mathematical (and therefore theoretical) sense, special relativity is completely consistent and correct. Arguing that point merely shows a misunderstanding of the theory".
"Some people think it's silly to argue that it's just a big conspiracy of coincidences that electromagnetism should exhibit so many properties that are unique to media--including interference, Doppler, Lorentzian retardations, Sagnac effect, aberration, refraction, diffraction, amplitude, frequency, etc. If you don't believe electromagnetism is a media process, then it must seem as if this allegedly intangible force of the universe was deliberately endowed with a plethora of media characteristics just to fool people like Maxwell, Huygens, Lorentz, Bradley, Young, Fizeau, and Sagnac".
References:
U. Bartocci, M. Mamone Capria, "Symmetries and Asymmetries in Classical
and Relativistic Electrodynamics", Foundations of Physics, 21, 7, 1991,
pp. 787-801;
U. Bartocci, "Most common misunderstandings about Special Relativity",
to appear in the Proceedings of the International Conference "Galileo Back
in Italy II", Bologna, 1999.
Umberto Bartocci
Dipartimento di Matematica - Universita’
06100 Perugia - Italy
bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it
DAVE BERGMAN
Subject: Errors in SRT
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:19:22 -0400
From: Dave Bergman <DBergman@compuserve.com>
To: umberto bartocci <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Dear Professor Bartocci,
Thank you for including me in your message about SRT.
I think that the best argument against SRT is the one given by Einstein
himself. He says that the Second Postulate is "quite irreconcilable"
with
the first. A translation into English states:
"In the following we make these assumptions (which we shall call the
Principle of Relativity) and introduce the further assumption,---an
assumption which is at first sight quite irreconcilable with the former
one---that light is propagated in vacant space, with a velocity c which
is
independent of the nature of motion of the emitting body." [The Principle
of Relativity, Original Papers by A. Einstein and H. Minkowski,
translated into English by M. N. Saha and S. N. Bose, University of
Calcutta, 1920]
Einstein does not say WHY the two postulates are "quite irreconcilable."
You should determine this for yourself or see my writings. If
you knew why they are irreconcilable, you would understand that Einstein
has departed from the Axiomatic Method that is essential in science.
By assuming two postulates that cannot be reconciled, Einstein abandoned the Scientific Method and the logical basis for science. This error was repeated by Niels Bohr in 1913 with the result that most of fundamental physics of the Twentieth Century must be replaced with scientific models and theories.
The next-best argument against SRT is the superior theory offered by Common Sense Science to replace SRT.
The principle result of Einstein's error has been to perpetuate confusion
over the concept of inertia. While his theory provided a way to include
the so-called "relativistic effects" of mass increase and length contraction,
which were not predicted by Maxwell's theory due to errors in the Maxwell
equation for magnetic induction, these results have recently been properly
developed from first principles and the fundamental laws of
electrodynamics. The new theory is an explanation for the origin
of
inertial mass and Newton's laws of mechanics. As Marnisek has
stated with regard to papers reviewed at the Cologne Conference of 1997,
=========================================
"A Causal Explanation of "Inertial Force"
"Bergman succeeded in showing that inertia is not an intrinsic property
of
matter in the sense of inertial mechanics and that the so-called inertial
forces are real forces. His argument is not based on a conception
analysis
of axioms of classical mechanics but on a quasi-electrodynamic mechanism
for moving charged particles which he showed to be the cause for the inertial
effect. The quantity of inertial force depends upon velocity and
acceleration. Bergman's causal explanation of inertial forces as
real, self-induced reaction forces is based on electrodynamic effects on
the spinning charged ring model. According to this explanation, inertial
mass is a derived concept and not a fundamental one. Because primary
electrodynamic force laws determine inertial mass, force is necessarily
a
fundamental concept in physics." [Johann Marinsek, "Descartes, the
Inventor of the Principle of Inertia," Convegno Cartesio e la scienza 1596-1996
Perugia, Sept. 4-7, 1997]
=========================================
Upon request, I will supply you with papers of the theory to replace
SRT.
Also, in about two weeks I will be mailing the next issue of "Foundations
of Science" to all subscribers, including yourself. This issue
carries an
article titled "Origins of Inertial Mass" that summarizes the main
points
of the new electrodymics.
Best Regards,
Dave Bergman
Common Sense Science
CLARENCE DULANEY
Subject: Simple Argument
Against STR
Date:
Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Clarence Dulaney <dulaneyc_98@yahoo.com>
To:
Umberto Bartocci <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Dear Umberto,
Our colleagues have been presenting arguments against
STR that depend on the definition of terms such as
"invariant" and "covariant".
I think there is a much simpler argument concerning
inertial frames.
Principle 1 of STR, quoting Max Born "There are an
infinite number of systems of reference (inertial
systems) moving uniformly and rectilinearly with
respect to each other, in which all physical laws
assume the simplest form (originally derived for
absolute space or the stationary ether.)"
I submit that there is not a single such frame. Any
such system would have had to be moving at a constant
speed since the beginning of time. Any other system
would have to have been accelerated (positive or
negatively) to achieve constant speed, thus defeating
the "uniformly and rectilinearly" restriction.
Thus, even if the mathematics and other machinations
of STR are correct, they are based on a flawed
principle. Thus, STR is at best only an approximation.
This is exactly what the Relativists have claimed for
the Newtonian, Galilean mechanics.
Best Regards,
Clarence Dulaney
GEORGE GALECZKI
Subject: connection test
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 14:06:03 +0200
From: "George Galeczki" <nc-galeczge@netcologne.de>
To: <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Very dear Umberto,
this is just a test of my recent internet connection and an opportunity
to
give you my address. We returned yesterday from a 12 days vacation
in
Brenzone sul Lago (on the east bank of Lago di Garda) and found in
my mail box your brief. Thanks a lot for the nice pictures which will remind
me on the Bologna-Conference 1999. I shall comment within several days
your opinions on the Bradley abberation , as well as your contribution
to the conference. Anyhow, stellar aberration shows clearly that the velocity
of light depends on the absolute (in 1-st approximation)velocity of the
observer (earth), rather than of the source -or on the relative
velocity
between source and observer. This undoubtly disproves the light-velocity
postulate of SRT, which claims independence on both source and detector
velocities.
I expect from you to realize the arguments based on the absence of
"Thomas precession" -a necessary consequence of the group structure of
Lorentz transformations in (3 + 1)-D - thus disqualifying SRT as a physical
theory.
There are different ways to show the untenability of SRT, but this
one is
best suited for peaple like you, who are mathematically educated.
You are perfectly right in your criticism of some (many) dissidents,
but
don´t exagerate playing the "advocatus diaboli"!
I´m grateful to you for organizing the Bologna-Conference, which
allowed me to meet Francisco Müller and others in person.
Wishing you all the best for the holiday season,
very sincerely
yours,
George
Subject: Re: your two
questions
Date:
Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:44:58 +0200
From:
"George Galeczki" <nc-galeczge@netcologne.de>
To:
"umberto bartocci" <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Carissimo Umberto,
I received this morning the mail containing your letter to Paul, his
answer, as well as the preliminary version of your contribution to the
Bologna conference. Well, the rôle of the "advocatus diaboli" is
a very necessary one and I, myself, have played it for a couple of years
in the eighties.
Concerning your two explicit questions:
1) There have been just a few -rather than tausends- people during the
past nine decades who pointed out, or hinted at MATHEMATICAL contradictions
in SRT. One among them was Walter Theimer, the author of "Die Relativitätstheorie:
Lehre, Wirkung, Kritik" (A. Francke, Bern and München, 1977). He observed
that the definition of light velocity in two IFR´s in the SRT scenario
requires: c = x / t = x´ / t , which is impossible if
(x´; t´) and (x ; t ) are related by Lorentz transformations
(LT) and THE UNITS OF LENGTH AND TIME IN THE TWO IFR`S ARE TO BE THE SAME.
McCrea and other SRT-Cardinals mention that this were possible if one makes
an "ADJUSTMENT OF MEASUREMENT UNITS".
There are many valid physical, logical and METAPHYSICAL (which SRT
actually is!) critical works on SRT, which gain value in view of the present
undefendable criticism.
2) The empirical absence of "Thomas precession" means that gamma
(kinematical) = 1 , or that the constant µ in:
x´ = (x - vt)(1 - µv^2) ; t´ = (t - vµx)(1
- µv^2) equals zero: µ = 0,
which reduces the transformations to : X´ = x - vt ; t´
= t . However, if mass changes with velocity, even Galilean relativity
fails.
There are many good and valid arguments disproving STR. (see my list
of over 25 publications on this subject.) I mention here just the unability
to define potential energy and, as a consequence, EXTENDED ( i.e. no POINT-Like)
SYSTEMS, which makes "relativistic thermodynamics" -in particular- impossible!
(see my paper in the Proceedings of the Cologne Workshop). The "Thomas
precession" argument is good since it leads to a real dilemma: IF IT EXISTS
IT CONTRADICTS SRT; IF IT DOESN´T EXIST -ALTHOUGH PREDICTED
BY SRT- means that predictions of SRT are absent. If it would exist, it
would mean rotation of REAL bodies (like an electron), not just a "geometrical"
(i.e. non-physical) rotation of abstract coordinate systems! It is assumed
by the "Church of Physics" that the "Thomas precession" were REAL, CUMMULATIVE
and IRREVERSIBLE, like the assumed asymmetric ageing of twins! Mass increase
with velocity, however, is a REAL, DYNAMICAL EFFECT, but it happens WITHIN
ONE SYSTEM, rather than BETWEEN TWO IFR´S.
Be confident and have no fear against the orthodoxy! They are in (very
deep) trouble, not we. Brain specialist claimed recently to prove anatomically
that Albert E. was a "born genius"! Yesterday I red a journal article about
"Einstein´s total solar eclipse": just because the total solar eclipse
would be observable from Ulm -Einstein´s birth place....
Best regards,
il tuo George
Subject: Re: "The shortest
argument against STR
Date:
Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:21:21 +0200
From:
"George Galeczki" <nc-galeczge@netcologne.de>
To:
"umberto bartocci" <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
My dear truth searchers,
Prof. Umberto Bartocci has challenged me to find the shortest
irrefutable
argument against the "special" relativity. Here it is:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE INVARIANT : c^2t^2 - x^2 = c^2t´^2
- x´^2 = INV.
IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH ANY EQUATION OF MOTION: x =
f(t) , ( c^2t^2 -f(t)^2 =/= INV. ) with the exception of x
= ct , therefore INV. = 0 .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was, anyway, NO INVARIANCE in "special" relativity, ONLY COVARIANCE (Maxwell´s equations, which scramble the electric and magnetic fields, are Lorentz-COVARIANT). The homogenous SCALAR wave equation is INVARIANT under Galilei transforma- tions while the inhomogeneous VECTOR wave equation is COVARIANT.
Please state in concise form your opinion.
Best regards,
George Galeczki
Subject: Summing-up
Date:
Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:04:08 +0200
From:
"George Galeczki" <nc-galeczge@netcologne.de>
To:
"Umberto Bartocci" <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Dear Umberto,
I have finally found a "strict and rigorous mathemathical formulation"
of my best and shortest refutation of SRT.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let x(µ)^2 = (cT)^2 and dp(µ)/dT = F(µ)
be the Minkowski INVARIANT and the COVARIANT form of Newton´s equation
of motion, with x(µ), T and F(µ) staying for position 4-vector,
proper time and 4-force, respectively. THE SOLUTION xµ = xµ(T)
OF THE EQUATION OF MOTION CANNOT SATISFY THE MINKOWSKI INVARIANT SINCE
IT CONTAINS THE NON-COVARIANT INITIAL CONDITIONS, TOO.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1/ My dear Umberto, looking back to the last ten days, I would
like to express my gratitude for your stimulating, tought provoking and
sometimes embarassing comments and statements. It doesn´t matter,
actually, whether you are a convinced critic of SRT, or a believer in its
logical/mathematical perfection. The end result confirms once more my positive
experience with BRAIN STORMING, which I practice for years with my colleague
Peter Marquardt.
2/ Newton´s equation of motion, for velocity independent
masses and forces depending only on relative distances, is INVARIANT under
the 3D Galilei transformations (GT): r´ = r + V.t ;
t´ = t . Although invariance fails, unfortunately, for m(v) = g(v).v
(g - the gamma-factor) and for more general forces, Newton´s equation
of motion in the form dp/dt = F remains valid! The failure
of GT means that there is always and everywhere a unique, global, preferred
inertial reference frame, which can be approached by successive approximations.
Mass increase with velocity is an absolute effect and can be derived-independently
on any kinematical coordinate transformation- from: dE = v.dp = c^2.dm
.
To Franco Selleri: Dear Franco, there cannot be "theories equivalent
to SRT", since SRT is wrong. There is a profound, physical difference between
theories with and without a preferred reference frame! Mass doesn´t
increases due to uniform motion with respect to a fictive, imaginary IFR.
To Neil Munch: Dear Neil, I hope you will accept that my argument against SRT doesn´t use "shifting assumptions".
To Dennis McCarthy: Dear Dennis, the necessary group properties
require the invariant velocity "c" to be unique. Physics with a "medium
dependent kinematics" would be a farce! It may well be that the velocity
of dislocations in a solid is upper limited by the sound velocity in that
solid ; so what?? I wrote over five years ago an article in "Physics Essays"
entitled: "From Einstein to Lorentz and then back to Newton", discussing
this matter in connection with the ideas of F. Winterberg.
I apologize before all addressants who found themselves, quite
unexpectedly, witnesses of a tiresome scientific duel. The formidable,
sometimes embarassing, power of INTERNET made possible to reach a positive
result in 10 days, which in earlier times could have never happen.
Best wishes to all of you,
George
JEAN-JACQUES GRUFFAT
Subject: relativity
Date:
Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:22:53 +0200
From:
Jean-Jacques GRUFFAT <gruffat@emse.fr>
To:
bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it
Dear Umberto Bartocci,
Bernard Guy gave me the mail you sent him and i am very interested with it.
I think that I can produce strong logical arguments against
relativity.
First you know that the Michelson-Morley's experiment took a
great
importance in the birth of relativity. Planck himself said that if
this
experiment had not been realised, we should not have the relativity
theory
at our disposal. I have however shown that in its classical interpretation,
the conclusion infered from this experiment( length contraction with
a
ratio (1-b2).5 in the movement direction of moving bodies) is not the
only
one which can explain the Michelson-Morley's experiment: any lengths
modifications with a ratio k in the normal directions to the movement
and a ratio k(1-b2).5 in the direction of movement would also agree the
negative result of the Michelson- Morley's experiment, whatever he k value.
Moreover, I have shown that if we assume that a photon is a
corpuscle which is not emitted inside the light source but in amedium at
rest, the negative result of the Michelson-Morley's experiment is explained
without any lengths modifications, and ther is no inconsistencies betwween
a corpuscular nature of light and some over observations. These results
are to be published in "La Scienza e i vorticci del dubbio"(Cartesio e
la Scienza").
A second argument can be deduced in considering the deduction
of
coordinates as done by Lorentz from the Lienard-Wiechert's delayed
potential created by a moving charge q a point A(x, y, z) and at time
t.
These coordinates transformation are the same as the ones given by
relativity.But these conclusions are as arbitrary as the ones concerning
the Michelson-Morley's experiment and it is also possible to deduce
other
coordinates transformations , within the frame of the same hypothesis.
Any of these coordinates transformation is quite compatible with one of
the lengths modifications as deduced from the Michelson-Morley' experiment
in the general case. ihave not published this rzewult, but i have
a paper about this, an I can send it you.
Moreover the demonstration of the Lorentz's coordinates transformations leads to a surprising result: the potential is assumed to be propagated with a velocity c in the initial cartesian frame, while the Lorentz's coordinates imply that this propagation is instantaneous in this frame. So, why not assume an instantaneous propagation in the initial cartesian frame? The Lorentz's demonstration would be without signification This would infer that the Newton's hypothesis of instantaneous actions are also true in electromagnetism, and that the Maxwell's equations would have to be modified.
A third argument is that I think that the Einstein hypothesis of constancy of light velocity in all galilean frames does not also lead to an only one transformation of coordinates. But I am not still very sure of that.
So I think that we can raise some objections to the foundations of relativity, with a logical point of view.
With my best wishes
Jean-Jacques Gruffat
SPIN-RAYONS X
158 cours Fauriel
42023 St-Etienne cedex 2
France
BERNARD GUY
Discussion of Relativity Theory
Answer to Umberto BARTOCCI
1) Best mathematical argument against Relativity (mathematical contradiction)
All the presentations of Relativity Theory are not equally mathematically self-consistent, but one may probably find some that have no mathematical contradiction, although the underlying hypotheses may still be discussed (e.g. Lévy-Leblond, 1976).
The important problems are found when the velocity of the moving frame is not parallel to the x axis. Thomas rotation does not solve the problem : it is not general and is in contradiction with electromagnetism (Mocanu); generally speaking, the problems of the misfit of relativity with electromagnetism (Bartocci and Capria) appears as a major problem.
In some derivations of the Lorentz transformation (in particular by Einstein), there are contradictions arising from the fact that the coordinates discussed are in the same time that of the photon and that of a general spatio-temporal event (e.g. Baig).
2) Best argument against Relativity from a general point of view (experimental, logical, theoretical or mathematical)
Fundamentally, the hypothesis that in the rest frame, space and time may be considered independently of each other is erroneous. As a consequence, is erroneous the assumption that clocks and rods may be envisaged independently of the physical world, that the size of the clocks may be reduced to zero and that the working of rods may be thought of as instantaneous. Basically, this is a philosophical argument which has consequences on a logical and mathematical point of view and on the simplicity of the link of equations with experience.
The problems set by the three-dimensional Lorentz transformation when the velocity of the moving frame is not parallel to one axis are other consequences of the wrong hypothesis of independency of space and time. In addition to leading to extremely complicated and paradoxical relations (non symmetry and non commutativity of the different movements etc.), this again leads to the major problems found in Thomas rotation, link with electromagnetism and so on (see section 1 above).
On the whole, I think that one cannot go back to the pre-relativistic situation (with absolute space and time, the aether etc.): the problem of space and time does set. One must define a new formalism, based on a new conception of space and time where these are in a way more linked than in the present formalism (including relativistic one). Therein, the complicated and paradoxical developments of relativity may unravel and some solutions to the problems set by several authors may be found… It is in good part a program of research to which I invite other researchers. In this context part of the relativity formalism may be kept with modifications, and part must be changed to new a formalism (see Guy for a preliminary proposition that must be polished from a mathematical point of view and that must be developped toward electromagnetism).
Bernard GUY, September 1999
Ecole Nationale Supérieure des Mines
158 Cours Fauriel, 42023 Saint-Etienne Cédex 2, France
---------------------------------------------------------------------
33 477- 42 01 64, ~ 42 00 66 (secret.), ~ 42 00 00 (fax)
guy@emse.fr (work)
bernardguy@hotmail.com (travel)
100124.603@compuserve.com (home)
JOSEF HASSLBERGER
Subject: Re: Questionario...
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999
00:25:49 -0200
From: Josef Hasslberger
<sepp@lastrega.com>
To: umberto bartocci
<bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
My dear Bartocci,
thank you for thinking of me and for sending me your survey which you wrote in perfectly understandable - if not perfect - english.
I think that your questions cannot be sensibly answered. Why do I say
this? You are attempting to beat special relativity in a field where it
is
unbeatable. That theory has drawn on the best minds developing it and
ensuring perfect internal mathematical compatibility. Attempting to
beat
special relativity on this plane is a mistake in methodology, even
though
mathematics is your speciality - or let's say maybe because mathematics
is
your speciality. Please bear with me although I am not a mathematician
and not even a recognized scientist, presuming to tell you what method
to adopt.
If you want to bring down special (or general) relativity you should
not
look for internal contradictions. You must search for external
contradictions, incompatibilities with phisical reality and with logics.
I
know that they have already taken this into account and have in some
way
made us believe that the theory cannot be logically understood. But
that,
if we want to use a good english term, is bull shit.
There is nothing in this universe which may not be understood by a person
which a reasonably sharp mind and a minimum of preparation. All those
arguments about the arcane nature of the theory have been put up only
in
order to prevent it's being taken apart by logical arguments.
The internal logical contradictions you are searching for, maybe are
not
even there, but that is not important. The crux lays much deeper. There
simply is no logical basis!
If a theory is not accessible to intuitive and logical argumentation,
it is
not worth to even take into consideration. You could also not agree
with me on this point, because your professional life is that of a mathematician.
You can use mathematics to try and "disprove" special relativity but
I
would think that a better approach would be that of taking just those
parts
of special relativity that are counterintuitive and to say: "Stop,
one
cannot reason like this".
Unfortunately such a point of view does not seem to be "in" these days. But nevertheless, the only way I see in which the impasse created by relativity may be overcome is to affirm the principle that everything must be understandable. If it is not, it is not acceptable.
I know you didn't like my latest article so much (Action at a Distance
-
http://www.hasslberger.com) because not based firmly on facts, but
tell me: what are the facts that this famous relativity is based on? At
least what I affirm is not against all possibility of logical immagination,
as is
relativity.
To make it short, in order to overcome relativity, I think one must
return
to the basic condition of intuibility of models. Nothing in this universe,
I believe, is outside of this parameter, regardless of what the adherents
of relativity might say.
Excuse my venting my thoughts in a rather non-scientific way
- yours
Josef H.
AL KELLY
Subject: Re: Try this
to read my comments
Date:
Wed, 13 Oct 99 00:49:58 -0000
From:
Al Kelly <agkelly@eircom.net>
To:
"umberto bartocci" <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Hi Umberto,
Heree are my comments in text and you can certaiinly read this. Will
this suit your requirements?
Regards,
Al Kelly
Comments on Prof. Umberto Bartocci’s Paper on S.R.
I have read your paper with great interest. I comment as follows:
1. I agree that, until now, there has not been a fair balanced debate
concerning the veracity or falsity of Special Relativity. All we get are
two armies lined up against each other. There is no genuine debate and
exchange of ideas. The debate is somewhat like that of a pair of drunks,
who do not listen to each other. Any riposte is good enough, just to counter
the point of the other side. I compliment you on the first attempt at a
proper debate.
My comments will probably be different from other commentators, because
I am an engineer, and will concentrate on the 'practical' problems with
relativity theory, rather than debate the bottomless morass of the 'theory'.
I shall mention items that are never (or very rarely ever) mentioned by
adherents of S.R. theory. This is a great irritant to those who question
that Theory. With your idea, both sides of the argument should be fairly
stated. That would be a welcome innovation.
2 It is rarely mentioned that Einstein, in his very first 1905
paper (in Annalen der Physik Vol 17, on pages 904 & 905), said that
straight line motion was not solely used, but motion in a polygonal shape,
and also in a circuit. Many authors claim that one cannot mention S.R.
in relation to motion in a circuit. They pontificate that Œonly straight
line uniform motion¹ can be discussed. They demand that no circular
motion is allowed. You cover this important point, but why not quote Einstein
on that? Here is what Einstein wrote (Annalen Der Physik 1905, Vol 17,
pages 904-5) : ²From this there ensues the following peculiar consequence.
If at points A and B of K there are stationary clocks which, viewed in
the stationary system are synchronous; and if the clock at A is moved with
the velocity v along the line AB to B, then on its arrival at B the two
clocks no longer synchronise, but the clock moved from A to B lags behind
the other which has remained at B by 1/2 tv*2/c*2 (up to magnitudes of
fourth and higher order), t being the time occupied in the journey from
A to B. It is at once apparent that this result holds good if the clock
moves from A to B in any polygonal line, and also when the points A and
B coincide. If we assume that the result proved for a polygonal line is
also valid for a continuously curved line, we arrive at this result: If
one of two synchronous clocks at A is moved in a closed curve with constant
velocity until it returns to A, the journey lasting t seconds, then by
the clock which has remained at rest the travelled clock on its arrival
at A will be 1/2 tv*2/c*2 second slow. Thence we conclude that a balance-clock
at the equator must go more slowly, by a very small amount, than a precisely
similar clock situated at one of the poles under otherwise identical conditions².
You have a good view on all that, but it would be worth while spelling
out exactly what Einstein said, and its implications.
3. Consider further what Einstein said in his first 1905 paper. Discussing firstly the dimensions of an object, which was moving in the direction of the x axis, he said that ²the X dimension appears shortened² by the factor gamma and continued ³the greater the value of gamma the greater the shortening². Having thus examined the appearance of moving objects, as observed by an observer at rest, Einstein continues:³ It is clear that the same results hold good of bodies at rest in the 'stationary¹ system, viewed from a system in uniform motion². The reciprocal effect is recorded here by Einstein. So far, so good. Of course, this raises the question as to how the dimensions of both objects could be relatively shortened at the same time, just because the two objects were in relative motion. We shall leave this for the moment, and discuss the other aspect of the problem, which has raised major controversy over the past 90 years. Einstein goes on to discuss time and he concludes that a travelling clock is perceived to run slow viz: t = gamma t¹. Strangely, he does not, at this juncture, refer to the reverse situation, even though he had earlier done so on the same page in the English edition (previous page 903 in the original German) when he discussed dimensions. Why is this fact never mentioned? What was left unsaid was that, to an observer travelling with the moving clock, the 'stationary¹ clock would also appear to run slow. Instead, he had laid the foundations for the subsequent twin controversy. Nobody ever mentions that Einstein later actually wrote that the time slowing was vice versa (he did not this in the 1905 paper, even though he applied the reverse situation to 'distance'). In his 1922 book ³The Meaning of Relativity² he specifically says it; 'mutatis mutandi' is the expression he used, and you being Italian will understand that! This was written after he had launched General Relativity. It is interesting that very few texts refer to Einstein¹s 1905 statement, and none to his 1922 statement, when discussing the twin paradox. Invariably, the discussion centres around accelerations and decelerations, cylindrical Universes, jumping Inertial Frames, or steady motion all along one straight line path. Several authors discuss this reverse situation (that Einstein omitted to mention in his 1905 paper); Why did Einstein not say in 1905 that according to the travelled clock, the stationary clock would have gone slow by the same amount? Indeed, Einstein¹s own discussion on dimensions covered the reverse situation for dimensions, but he did not do this not for time and clocks. Why? Here is where, in his later book "The Meaning of Relativity" (Chapman & Hall, London,1922, p. 35), Einstein did record the reverse situation, for both dimensions and time, (referring to a stationary system K, and a moving one K¹): the clock goes slower than if it were at rest relatively to K¹. These two consequences, which hold, mutatis mutandi, for every system of reference, form the physical content, free from convention, of the Lorentz transformation. In the intervening 77 years, I did not find a single reference to this clear statement that the effect is vice versa. It was not mentioned in the famous debate between Dingle and Irishman McCrea; the latter is still alive (I think, at about 93 years of age). Nobody dug up that pertinent fact.
4. I do not agree with your implication that McCrea answered Dingle satisfactorily. I never met anyone, who had read Dingle¹s book and was satisfied with McCrea's response!! This is simply because nobody would publish Dingle's reply to McCrea. Because Dingle was prevented from making a further response, many people thought that McCrea had won the debate! Dingle had to publish a book to get his say. You have read the book "Science at the Crossroads" by Dingle (Martin Bryan & O'Keeffe, London; 1972) where he answered McCrea (because no journal would print his response to McCrea, we can then hardly give McCrea the victory?). I also challenge you to give a fair run to Dingle and his book. He was the author of "Relativity for All" (Methuen, 1922), and of "The Special Theory of Relativity" (Menthuen, 1940) which was a standard textbook in English and American Universities in 4 editions well into the 1970's; that is for over 30 years. He was no small fry, no outsider, and had discussed the whole theory in detail with Einstein and all the other famous physicists of the time. Tolman actually names an equation after Dingle in his book "Relativity, Thermodynamics and Cosmology". In 1959, however, like St Paul on the road to Damascus, Dingle realised that there was a snag. What is it, he asked, in Einstein's theory, that determines which of 2 clocks, relatively moving uniformly, lags behind the other? Over a period of 13 years he sought a straight answer to this simple query in vain. McCrea gave an astonishing final reply. He said that Einstein had never compared the rates of two relatively moving clocks. "If we thus say that, according to relativity theory, a moving clock appears to go slow, then we are not making a symmetric comparison of one single clock with another single clock". But, that is precisely what Einstein did in his first relativity 1905 paper and his 1922 book; the latter referred to 'mutatis mutandi" for this situation. McCrea was clearly trying to wriggle out of the problem, by changing what Einstein said. How many people will swallow that excuse? Dingle penned the Encyclopaedia Britannica statements on Relativity; he was that renowned. Reading many papers, you would think that he was an isolated crank. In my opinion, anyone who has not read and studied Dingle's book is not qualified to pontificate on this subject.
5. Even more of an embarrassment is the completely incorrect and
bizarre bluff of Einstein in Naturwissenschaften (6th year, Heft 48, page
697-712, 1918) concerning the Twin Paradox. I challenge you to quote this
nonsense and debunk it! Einstein was challenged concerning the one-sided
aging of the twins, who are in relative motion. He postulated, in an article
in Naturwissenschaften, that the speeding up of a moving clock in the deceleration/acceleration
phase was exactly twice the slowing down that is occasioned in the steady-speed
state. This is quoted in translation in Dingle¹s book (p. 194). In
a supposed discussion between a skeptic and a relativist, the skeptic raises
the paradox of the two clocks (U1 and U2), each supposed to be running
slower than the other. The supposed 'proof¹ of one-sided aging has
been buried in the archives. It is surely another huge embarrassment to
adherents of Relativity Theory. I have never seen it even partially quoted
in the past 20 years, since Dingle quoted it (pages 192-201 of his book
³Science at the Crossroads", nor in the previous 50 years. Why, oh
why? Einstein actually pretends that the whole paradox is explained by
the following statement (referring to the acceleration and deceleration
phase as causing 'advancement' or lessening of age):
"Calculation shows that the consequent advancement amounts to exactly
twice as much as the retardation during stages 2 and 4. This completely
clears up the paradox which you have propounded." (page 669 Columns 1 &
2 of Natürwissenschaften).
Phases 2 and 4 are the steady uniform motion phases going out and then
back. I love the phrase ‘calculation shows’. What calculation? Be wary
of any such evasive statement. Young’s "University Physics" on the Twin
Paradox says "Careful analysis shows", but carefully avoids saying how
this is done!
Let us consider this question. On the journey of a twin, who goes off,
and then turns around and comes back again, the acceleration phase can
be of any duration and magnitude, and the deceleration phase can be likewise;
also the return journey could have entirely different acceleration and
deceleration from the outward journey. So, we cannot say that the magnitude
of any effect would exactly balance out the slowing that is supposed to
happen during the (arbitrarily chosen) steady-state phase. As an example,
we could have the steady state phases going out and back each of duration
1000 years, while the deceleration/acceleration, which reverses the motion,
could take 1/100 second. How could the slowing that took place over 2000
years be magically exactly balanced by a quickening that takes place in
our arbitrarily chosen 1/100 second! An alternative example could have
the steady state out-and-back taking 1/100 second, and the acceleration
and deceleration part taking 1000 years. Also, the outward acceleration
and deceleration could be 10,000 times greater (or less) than those on
the return journey!
It is arrant nonsense to suggest that the two always balance exactly,
no matter what the duration of the steady state phase, or the acceleration
phases. What a blatant crooked swindle! But, this must be quoted when debating
this paradox. Why pretend that Einstein did not say that? I dare any proponent
of S.R to mention this statement by Einstein. He was challenged to explain
the paradox, and this was his considered published reply (after a 7 year
delay from when it was mentioned by Langevin). He occluded the supposed
balancing of the steady state, and the acceleration & deceleration
phases, with convoluted applications of imaginary gravitational fields
acting upon the twins!
You imply that a correct 'explanation' is in almost all relativity
textbooks. I have, so far, collected 54 different so-called 'explanations'
(up to Summer 1999), published in mainstream physics journals (all
suitably peer reviewed!) and textbooks, and each implies that most of the
others are wrong!!! These so-called explanations are broken down as follows:
8 say it is inexplicable, and causes a huge problem for Relativity (among
these is Essen the inventor of the cesium clock); 4 say the differential
aging is all caused solely during the acceleration & deceleration phases
(this includes Langevin, Bondi, Rindler and a standard 1990's textbook);
9 say the acceleration has nothing whatever to do with the explanation;
3 say that General Relativity has nothing to do with the explanation; 4
say that General Relativity gives the sole explanation; 2 say jumping from
one Inertial Frame to another explains the paradox. Other more exotic and
bizarre explanations make up the rest. So, it as all very simple, and the
correct explanation is to be seen in every standard text? Like hell it
is!
Møller's widely used text "The Theory of Relativity" had to
admit that its original explanation was not correct. In later editions
it concocts a mass that suddenly goes from + to - for a twin! That must
be an interesting experience! ŒBizarre¹ is the word for that.
Umberto Bartocci has yet another explanation (if this has been published,
it can be counted as number 55) viz: that the path of one of the clocks
is 'geodesic, the other definitively not". He claims that "the 'postulate
of relativity' either special or general, never asserts that supposed complete
symmetry between the two clocks". I claim that Einstein said just that
in his 1922 book (see above). Also, in relation to this paradox why not
also quote another simple objection; if the twins never met again, and
just start by passing each other at high speed and exchange photographs,
and after 30 years of each others own recorded 'time' take another photograph
and post that to the other twin?. This is the simple set-up that is very
carefully avoided in the debate. Or what of the "Peter would be dead and
Paul alive on the one hand, while Paul would be dead and Peter alive on
the other hand" problem set by Lovejoy in 1931. We have Peter both dead
and alive, and also Paul both dead and alive! Why, oh why, do so many adherents
of S.R. adopt a lofty condescending attitude on this problem, as if everyone
else was stupid, and ‘dead from the neck up’?
6. In relation to the Sagnac experiment, we do not need to talk
about infinities. Just make the disc big (the Michelson & Gale disc
is 16,000,000 m in diameter, and that is fairly big). When the disc is
of a size where the best measuring instruments will not show any difference
from a straight line direction, then, at such a low speed (about 13 m/s
rim speed on a typical Sagnac small disc test) how can S.R explain such
a huge effect (which is 10,000,000 times the S.R. forecast effect). It
is just not good enough to say that S.R. does not apply, because Sagnac
is circular motion, and try to leave the matter there, as if that were
sufficient explanation; we must explain the matter!! See the earlier discussion
above on Einstein's statement that S.R. applies to motion in a circuit,
exactly as in the Sagnac test. If we all think that the Sagnac effect is
simply explained, then why the 21 different attempted explanations given
in Hasselbach & Nicklaus? Reading them is amusing. And, it is all supposed
to be very clear, and simple. It sure is not! To give a balanced debate
this view must be aired. Listen to Hasselbach & Nicklaus (1993):
"Various authors have derived the Sagnac phase shift in a number of
ways: by optical analogy, general relativity considerations, special relativity
analyses, the Doppler effect on moving media in an inertial frame, a classical
kinematic derivation, a dynamical analysis in a noninertial frame, by analogy
with the Aharonov-Bohm effect, by extension of the hypothesis of locality,
by adiabatic invariance, using other concepts, and in other ways".
Look here, there is a problem for S.R in the Sagnac effect. There is
no
point is clouding the issue with big words or equations! Why not state
the glaringly simple derivation using classical ideas? I challenge you
to state this (say the opposite if you wish to give your balanced debate).
This is covered in Monographs 1 and 2 of the Inst. Engrs Ireland (see references).The
light moves relative to the laboratory in a table-top Sagnac test. To the
observer aboard the disc the light goes at speeds of c±v in the
opposing directions. R Monti derived the same ideas independently in his
Phys. Essays article, at about the same time.
The GPS synchronisation system uses the Sagnac correction every day.
But, it pretends that this is a 'relativistic' correction. It is nothing
of the sort. The President of the Bureau International des Poids et Mesures
in Paris (which sets the rules for these synchronisation) wrote to
me and said "You are right in stating that the Sagnac effect is not
relativistic"!!! I can send you a copy of the letter if you wish. This
is despite the fact thast their official documentation defines it as 'relativistic'!!
That sure is some huge admission. See Monograph No 4 of the Inst of Engs
of Ireland 1998 "Rules for Einstein-Synchronisation of Clocks Challenged".
This scheme is one big pretence. There is no relative motion between two
clock stations that are sending signals to synchronise with each other;
how then can we use the word 'relativistic' to the fact that the
signal goes at a different speed East and West around the globe?? The 'swindle'
is to pretend that the speed of light aboard the spinning Earth is c. They
have no compunction in applying their 'relativistic' analysis to the spinning
Earth (despite the fact that others say you cannot use it in those circumstances).
Having pretended that the speed is c, they then alter the time aboard
the Earth by exactly the Sagnac amount. This is just as altering the time
in the famous 'rod-clock' thought experiment in every basic physics text
on relativity (by gamma). If you claim that the speed of light must
be 'c' aboard the moving object, then you must get the time altered by
precisely the amount needed to correct the difference in the speed of light
from the figure 'c'. Is that clear? I am in corresondence with those authorities
on that at the moment. The usual verbal response that "well, S.R. fits
so many things that you would have to disprove all those, before I will
listen to you". You see, to any sensible reader of all this debate, there
is never a fair quoting of the contra arguments. It is like the defence
of a 'religion' with 'mysteries' that we cannot understand!!
7. My paper on Hafele & Keating (Monograph No 3 of the Inst.
Engs Ireland) shows that those tests meant nothing. However, and ironically,
clocks that are sent off at speed actually slow down, in proportion to
their absolute speed with reference to outer space, that travels with the
Earth.
No reference to the evidence in favour of this is ever given. It is
in Monograph No 4of the inst Engrs Ireland.
8. Some further comments:
"All the other fellows do not look from the facts to the theory, but
from the theory to the facts; they cannot extricate themselves from a once
accepted conceptual net, but only flop around in it in a grotesque way"
-
Einstein writing to Schrödinger in 1935. Let us give precedence
to the facts of the tests mentioned above.
Would you dare to mention any of the detailed arguments demolishing S.R. from the 1000 page book ³Electromagnetics² by Irishman A O¹Rahilly (1938) ?
The philosopher Sir Karl Popper in ³The Logic of Scientific Discovery² said that one test can demolish a beautiful theory, but no number of tests can ever prove a theory.
Here is why the adherents of S.R. stick to their guns:
"The chief attraction of the theory lies in its logical completeness.
If a single one of the conclusions is proven wrong, it must be given up;
to modify it without destroying the whole structure appears to be impossible."
A. Einstein.
References
Dingle H Science at the Crossroads (Martin Brian & O'Keeffe, London)
1972
Einstein A Natürwissenschaften 6th Year Heft 48 697-702
Kelly A.G. Monographs No's 1 (1995) to 6 (1998); copies free from the
Institution of Engineers, 22 Clyde Rod, DUBLIN 4. Ireland.
Einstein A. Ann der Physik Vol 17, 891-921, 1905
Einstein A. The Principle of Relativity (Dover, London) 1952
Einstein A. The Meaning of Relativity (Chapman & Hall Methuen,
London) 1922
Langevin P. Scientia 31-54, 1911
Monti R. Phys. Ess. 9, No 2, 238-60, 1996
O¹Rahilly A. Electromagnetics (Long man Green; London) 1938
Popper K. The Logic of Scientific Discovery (Hutcihinson; London) 1972.
Tolman R. C. Relativity Thermodynamics and Cosmology (Oxford Unit,
Pry.) 1934
Miller C. The Theory of Relativity (Clarendon Pry. Oxford) 1952
Young H. University Physics (Addison Wesley, Reading Mass.) 1992
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Umberto, all the above might be useful to you together with all
the other submissions that you will receive to your stimulating circular.
That was a great idea, and congratulations on doing that. I apologise if
the tone of this note is somewhat heated in certain places. It is so, because
I am Irish, and we have a rather excitable Latin nature!! It is angry,
not with you, but with the unsatisfactory position in physics to-day; you
gave me the opportunity to let off some steam!
Sincerely,
Al Kelly
DEL LARSON
Subject: Some thoughts
Date:
Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:21:52 EDT
From:
Delbert7@aol.com
To:
nc-galeczge@netcologne.de, bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it
All,
The recent voluminous e-mailings concerning the best argument against special relativity (SR) have clearly indicated a problem in our common attempts to come up with something better. If we try to come up with theoretical arguments to show how special relativity is wrong, we will lose. SR has been studied and celebrated for generations now. If there was a theoretical flaw it would have been found long ago. The generations past were very intellegent, as are many in today's physics establishment.
Several points have been raised which I wish to comment on:
-----------
Point 1. The problem with George's challenge to SRT.
Special relativity is certainly correct - in the mathematical sense.
Special relativity is, in essense, a theory about point like events in
a four space.
With the Lorentz transformations it is straight forward to show how
any two separated events obey a condition where:
s^2 = dx*dx + dy*dy + dz*dz - cdt*cdt
is an invariant quantity, such that when the Lorentz transformation is applied, and one goes to a primed coordiate system, one gets:
s'^2 = dx'*dx' + dy'*dy' + dz'*dz' - cdt'*cdt' = s^2. (1)
In the above expressions, dx (dy, dz) is the spatial separation of the
two events in the x (y, z) direction, and dt is the temporal separation
of the two events. The unprimed coordinates are evaluated in one
inertial frame, while the primed coordinates are evaluated in a second
inertial frame moving at speed v with respect to the first.
Since it can be straight forwardly shown that the above equation (1)
follows for finite differentials, we can see that for any instantaneous
snapshot of any arbitrary motion the invariant holds. Thus, there
is no problem with special relativity handling an arbitrary motion x =
f(t), as we can analyze it in terms of individual events (values of x and
t) and apply the Lorentz transformation to analyse it from any other frame,
and we are guaranteed that the invariant stays invariant. This method of
attempting to disprove SR only serves to indicate to the establishment
that we don't know what we're talking about.
I think the root of the problem is in what one means by "invariant".
The confusion arises because of the fact that light behaves uniquely within
the special theory. For light we have: x = ct, and therefore x^2
- c^2t^2 = 0. And when the transformation is made we also have x'
= ct', or x'^2 - c^2t'^2 = 0. This can lead to the confusion that
the invariance of the four vector is related to motion of a photon, since
for the motion of the photon the quantity x^2 - c^2t^2 = 0 is invariant
between reference frames. Once this confusion is made, one may try to evaluate
this "invariant" for particles moving at speeds less than c and one does
indeed find that it is not an invariant quantity. If we have x =
vt for a baseball moving in drag free space, we will not get an invariant
if we form the quantity x^2 - c^2t^2 at different times. The problem
here is that we are no longer concerning ourselves with two separated events
in four space, and comparing their four vector separations in two different
reference frames. Instead we are looking at separate event separations
and comparing them. As a concrete example, consider our baseball at a position
x = 1 mile, t = 1 hour. What we mean by this event is actually the
separation of two events, with the second event being the origin at x =
0, t = 0. If we evaluate the quantity x^2 - c^2t^2 we will get some
s^2, and if we use the Lorentz transformation and evaluate x'^2 - c^2t'^2
from the other frame we will again get s^2. That's the invariant
quantity. But if we now consider the case where x = 10 miles, t =
10 hours, we get a new (not invariant) value for s^2! But the point
is that this new value of s^2 will be the same in the second frame.
It's invariant from frame to frame, it's not invariant from event to event.
That's what special relativity is all about. Relativity does not
stipulate that the four vector for the two different cases must be the
same. Of course not. It would be identical to saying that a
meter stick and a yard stick must have the same length. (There we
also have two events for each case. Case one has events at x = 0, t = 0
and x = 1 meter, t = 0. Case two has events at x = 0, t = 0 and x
= 1 yard, t = 0. Here the invariant quantites are 1 meter in the
first case and 1 yard in the second. And a meter doesn't equal a
yard, much to the dismay of much of the US population!). Again the point
of confusion I see in George's work stems from the fact that if light is
used, one does get an invariant of 0 for its entire spectrum (pun intended)
of positions and times throughout its motion. But that is not what
is meant by four vector invariance.
---------
Point 2. Sherwin's Experiment.
I agree with Tom concerning the problem that Sherwin's result poses for Lorentz. In discussing this matter with Ron at the most recent NPA meeting, Ron made the point that he feels that the atoms in Sherwin's rotating apparatus can adjust to their equilibrium position at speeds faster than the speed of sound. Once Ron allows this to happen one can indeed get a null result from within the Lorentzian theory. But my point of view is more in line with Sherwin's. Why should the adjustment of position within the moving springs occur faster than the speed of sound? The adjustments of positions always occur at the speed of sound in every other experiment. For this reason I think we must doubt length contraction in the Lorentzian sense.
Fortunately it is possible to modify the Lorentz theory to have time dilation alone, without a length contraction. If one does so, the only experiment that can't be readily handled is that of Michelson Morley, and similar such tests. I have proposed (Physics Essays, vol.7, no.4, 1994) that the Michelson Morley null result occurs as a result of the fact that the mirrors enforce null conditions on the etherial oscillations, and when you move the null condition you enforce the null result.
------------
Point 3. Gamma*m*v.
There was again some discussion about whether we should consider mass to increase in the momentum expression, or if the velocity should be allowed to go to greater than c. As for me, rather than forcing nature to have two terms in the momentum, mass and velocity, and arguing about which must change from the classical form, I believe we should have three terms, gamma, m, and v each contributing. Clearly gamma is a function of v, so really what I am arguing for is simply a more complicated form for the momentum than p = mv. I don't see why we waste all this time debating what's going on. p = gamma*m*v. That's all. m is m. v is v. And gamma is gamma. It's just that p doesn't equal mv. Why must we insist that it does?
-------------
Point 4. The needed experimental test.
Not mentioned in the voluminous exchange is the one set of experiments which clearly show that relativity is wrong. Recently these tests have come under the name of "quantum teleportation", but earlier they were known as tests of Bell's theorem. In those experiments quantum phenomena clearly lead to results of experiments where two spatially separated detectors affect the results in a way violating causality if relativity is correct. If a modified Lorentzian theory is deemed correct, causality can be maintained. Some orthodox physicists recognize this problem. This set of experiments is, without doubt in my opinion, the Achilles heel of special relativity.
My fellow scholars, I submit to you that it is this set of experiments that will lead to the downfall of the special theory. The relevant references are:
Theory - J.S. Bell, Physics (NY) 1, 195, 1965. Note that this
journal is
very hard to find. Fortunately the paper can be found within
Bell's
delightful and easily obtainable book "Speakable and unspeakable in
quantum mechanics" which is readily available in many fine bookstores.
Experiment - A. Aspect, et al., Phys. Rev. Lett., 49, 1804 (1982).
Really folks - experimental proof that special relativity is wrong!
And the
experiment blessed even by the most orthodox journal in all of physics.
This is the path to overthrowing relativity.
With best regards to all,
Del Larson
Subject: Re: Some thoughts
Date:
Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:54:47 +0200 (MET DST)
From:
Franco Selleri <Franco.Selleri@ba.infn.it>
To:
Delbert7@aol.com
Dear Del Larson,
I am sorry not to know you,
but one thing I know, that
your argument concerning the EPR paradox is not correct. No
experiment performed on the Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen
correlations has ever produced any evidence against either
local realism or the Lorentz interpretation of Special
Relativity. Bell's inequality has never been checked
experimentally.
Are you shocked? If you
are it is only because
you never paid any attention to the so called loopholes.
Additional assumptions have been made, starting with the
1969 CHSH paper in PRL, and inequalities different from
and stronger than the original Bell inequality have been
obtained. Also here, as it happens often nowadays, the
orthodox people play a dirty game: they try to make people
forget about the additional assumptions. I can see that
with you they succeeded, Del Larson. In the case of the
Orsay experiments (Aspect et al.) the interval within
which the linear combination of correlation functions
must lie has length 1 according to the weak inequality
(deduced from local realism alone), but length less than 0.03
for the strong inequality (deduced with the essential
help of untestable additional assumptions). Experimentally
the STRONG inequality was found to be violated, but the weak
one is on safe ground by a wide margin.
The whole story is told
in detail in a book which
I recently co-authored with Alexander Afriat: THE EINSTEIN,
PODOLSKY AND ROSEN PARADOX IN ATOMIC, NUCLEAR, AND PARTICLE PHYSICS,
Plenum, New York/London (1998).
Best regards to all of you,
Franco Selleri
Subject: Minkowski,
Sherwin, EPR & more tests
Date:
Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:12:11 EST
From:
Delbert7@aol.com
To: bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it, selleri@bari.infn.it,
...
To all,
I have again several comments on the ongoing discussions.
George,
It is clear to me that the problem in your argument is purely conceptual.
You are in essense showing that a series of events, all evaluated within
the same frame, do not satisfy the Minkowski invariant. The problem
is that the Minkowski invariant is a quantity that is invariant between
pairs of events each analyzed in different frames, not a series of events
within the same frame.
That is, if I am understanding your arguments, you are comparing x^2
- c^2t^2 at different times within a single frame, while the Minkowski
invariant is meant to compare the quantities x^2 - c^2t^2 and x'^2 - c^2t'^2
at a single time, but in two different frames. For the latter case,
the Lorentz transformation does indeed lead to an invariant quantity after
the comparison. For the former case you are indeed correct that it
is not invariant. But you are incorrect in saying that special relativity
says that the former case should be invariant. Special relativity
says no such thing.
I also note in your writings that you state that the relative velocity
between two frames S and S' is not reciprocal. This statement
is also
incorrect. I have worked this out in detail, and have no doubt
that the
velocity is reciprocal. Once length contraction, time dilation,
and the
simultaneity alterations are made, observers agree that their velocities
are
reciprocal.
Tom,
Re Sherwin:
The discussion I had with Ron regarding Sherwin's experiment ended by my pointing out that if one does a Lorentzian analysis of the experiment one does indeed get what Ron says. Specifically:
Special relativity predicts no observable effect - the weight goes around in a circle. Special relativity goes on to say that if you go to a moving frame, the weight will now go around in an ellipse. Special relativity shows that there are mass increases, length contractions, and time dilations that go along with the transfer to that frame, but that all is in equilibrium. As is well known, a Lorentzian analysis including all of these factors gives the same result as special relativity. At the conference Ron and I agreed on all of this. But my point to him was that in order to get the elliptical motion, the length contraction of the spring must occur in a way faster than the speed of sound. At the speed of light perhaps. Then the equilibrium is there for the elliptical motion, including all of the mass increase, time dilation and length contraction effects. But if the length contraction occurs at the speed of sound, then one should expect a non-null result.
I beleive that Sherwin was well aware of all of this, and that the central
point of his argument was that the length change should not occur faster
than the speed of sound. In fact he emphasized that point in his
paper. In the end, Ron is right that if the length change is not
limited by the speed of sound, that Lorentz predicts no effect. But
I side with Sherwin's original analysis. If Lorentz was right, there
should have been an effect for Sherwin to see. Unless the sun or
earth is at rest with respect to the ether, which would be a real coincidence.
Re Length contraction:
I'd be interested to see how a theory without a length contraction can handle Michelson Morley without doing something about the velocity of light between the mirrors. The original experiment was of course designed based on the assumption of no length contraction, and it quite clearly (and simply) leads to a prediction of an effect. If you have light speed c in a preferred frame, and no length contraction, I don't see how you can explain Michelson and Morley.
Re Establishment:
You are correct that much of the establishment has brushed off the EPR
tests by saying that no information is transmitted, so there is no problem.
But a persistent minority of the establishment realizes that there is indeed
a profound problem. Indeed, it was Einstein himself (along with Podolski
and Rosen) who brought this matter out in the first place. Further,
whenever I have discussions with establishment physicists about this they
usually mindlessly state what you say, but after minimal discussion with
me they come to understand that this is not so easy to dismiss. Usually
it ends with them saying "I'm not that smart", that is, they give up.
I have found almost all establishment physicists to be quite intellegent,
honest, and hardworking.
The problem is that this stuff is rather weird to think about and they
just
grab the first handy argument they can find to stop discussing this
entire
matter with us "loonies". And I can see why. Generally,
in the discussions of what is wrong with relativity, the special relativity
opponent simply misses the point. And it takes a long time, generally,
to find out why the opponent is wrong. But after days of thought
one generally (90% or more) finds that the opponent is wrong. It
takes that long because the opponent is generally quite intelligent too,
and has worked on this for quite some time.
Take the case we are arguing with George here. (Who is doing
quite complex, intelligent things.) It is the confusion of the concepts
that leads to this entire discussion, and it is going on for quite some
time. So instead of all that effort, the establishment just grabs
the first handy argument and dismisses the opponent. But in the case
of EPR, most establishment physicists do agree there is something strange
going on they don't understand. I still view this as the Achilles
heal of the intellectual giant that is the Special Theory. We should
all whack away at that heal!
Franco,
I am puzzled in many ways by your response. First, I would not
at all be surprized if "the Lorentz interpretation of Special Relativity"
was not
harmed by the EPR tests of Aspect et al., indeed in some sense that
is my point! But of course your phrase "the Lorentz interpretation
of Special Relativity" is itself highly objectionable to me, since Lorentz
did his work before Einstein, and Lorentz never interpretted special relativity
in any way. Rather, it is the Lorentz theory which special relativity
re-interpretted. But if we must bow to the prevailing winds of giving
Einstein credit for every physical science advance, then the Lorentz theory
might be called "the Lorentz interpretation of Special Relativity".
I believe that the EPR tests do indeed support the Lorentz theory over
that of Einstein, so perhaps your response to me is merely to agree with
that point.
A second reason why I am puzzled is that I am unfamiliar with the strong and weak Bell's inequalities, and I have never learned anything about them. I have been studying Bell's original paper on the matter, and from what I understand so far it seems quite clear and to the point. When I was a professor at UCLA I attended Bell's talk for the Schwinger symposium, and Bell never got into any "strong" and "weak" conditions. Rather, with the experiments only recently completed, he was quite clear that the experiments did indeed call into question relativity. He consistently made the point that the Lorentz theory was perfectly in step with the EPR tests, but the special relativity was not. Do you differ with such a statement? If so, how?
A third reason for my puzzlement is that by mentioning things in terms of only "strong" and "weak" I have no idea what you are referring to. If it is possible, could you please sketch some of the "assumptions" that Bell does or does not make? Again, his 6 page work seems quite clear and to the point to me. Why would one require an entire book to cover this topic, when the EPR and Bell papers are so short? Could you send quick, to-the-point arguments why they are wrong?
Clarence,
The EPR paper set up an experiment wherein, if relativity is correct, certain quantum mechanical experiments would lead to results showing that quantum mechanics is wrong. Essentially, relativity and quantum mechanics are incompatible. For this reason, the EPR tests show whether it is quantum mechanics or special relativity that is correct. When the tests were done, it was quantum mechanics that prevailed. Hence, this set of experiments shows that relativity is wrong. For this reason it is highly relevant in any discussion of relativity to discuss EPR experiments.
This is unless one wants to set aside all experiments and make things
a
strictly theoretical discussion. But, I support Umberto's position
that,
from a mathematical (and therefore theoretical) sense, special relativity
is completely consistent and correct. Arguing that point merely shows
a
misunderstanding of the theory.
Only in the experimental realm can we hope to overthrow special relativity.
And the EPR experiments are a set of experiments where relativity is
especially vulnerable.
All,
In the past I have proposed two additional experimental tests of the special theory, beyond the EPR tests:
1) An amplitude equivalent of the Michelson Morley test.
In one of my previous positions I worked at the Center for Research
in
Electro Optics and Lasers in Orlando Florida. There they have
experts in making femto second lasers. These ultrashort pulses of
light could be put through a Michelson Morley like apparatus and recombined.
If sent through a nonlinear doubling crystal, a very fine determination
can be made whether there is a differential velocity as the earth rotates
during the day.
Despite the rather obvious benefits of doing this experiment (for about
$50,000) the NSF rejected it (I earned two F's and a D as I recall
- only 3
A's get funded), since I was audacious enough to say that one might
get a non-null result. (The reviewers asked why money should be wasted
on this when relativity is so well proven already.) In hindsight
I should have pitched the thing as showing further support for Einstein's
remarkable theory. I'm guessing the reviews would have been much
better.
2) Searching for a length contraction using rail guns.
As I understand it, rail guns are capable of making projectiles reach quite high velocities. If one could shoot an ultra short laser pulse across the rapidly moving particle, it may be possible to get a very accurate length of the moving object from its shadow. I've never run the numbers, but in principle one could look for a real measurement of length contraction in this way. To be certain, one should also decelerate the projectile after the experiment to be sure that a physical deformation had not occurred. I never followed up on this experiment with a proposal, since it appeared to me that achieving a high enough velocity to get a noticable length contraction would be very hard. I imagine that decelerating the object would be even more difficult. That, and test 1 above is clearly doable.
Note that test 1 may still leave a null result even if there is an ether
with
no length contraction. Since the mirrors enforce a condition
where phase velocity tests (traditional Michelson Morley tests) give a
null result, and do so for all frequencies, the group velocity must also
be c with respect to the mirrors. For that reason, test 1 only tests
to see of there is a different envelope velocity than that of the underlying
carrier wave. It is possible, and should be tested. But the
point is that test 1 can experimentally show relativity is wrong if an
non-null result is obtained, it just can't say too much new if the test
comes back with a null result.
With sincere and best regards to all,
Del Larson
ROCCO VITTORIO MACRI’
Assisi, 14.10.1999
Dear prof. Bartocci,
cerco di riassumere qui il mio personale punto di vista relativo alle
domande del suo questionario.
Credo di essermi convinto che esiste una differenza non
trascurabile tra logica e matematica. In particolare in Fisica puo’ esistere
una teoria autocontraddittoria senza che cio’ sia manifesto a livello matematico.
Questo è possibile in quanto la logica è allacciata al ‘‘tutto"
("il reale è razionale" direbbe Hegel), e da cartesiano ammetto
che non si può toccare una parte senza interagire con il resto.
Basterebbe pensare al peso che il principio di ragion sufficiente esercita
su una teoria fisica pur senza toccarne minimamente il formalismo matematico.
La matematica invece, se vista come un linguaggio (al riparo
della mathesis universalis di Cartesio, che è appunto quella "logica
primordiale" contenente «i primi rudimenti della ragione umana»),
non permette di asserire o di negare la plausibilità fisico-logico-filosofica
di una teoria o "sub-teoria" (direbbe Feynman parafrasando Russell, in
"The Character of Physical Law", «I matematici trattano solo della
struttura del ragionamento, e non si interessano veramente di quello di
cui stanno parlando. Non devono neppure sapere quello di cui stanno parlando,
o, come essi dicono, se quello di cui parlano è vero»). Illuminante
sotto questo aspetto è il cosiddetto "paradosso di Kripgenstein"
sull’impossibilità epistemica di cogliere la semantica da un gruppo
di regole o tormalismi (non mi dilungo su questo punto ma spero di fare
un articolo al riguardo prima o poi). Sarebbe sufficiente, d’altra parte,
riflettere sui limiti intrinseci che il teorema di Godel pone alla stessa
matematica. Sarebbe più opportuno dunque formulare la domanda del
suo questionario sull’autocontraddittorietà (come ho fatto io al
convegno di Bologna) piuttosto che su "mathematical contradictions".
Il nocciolo della questione è che la matematica
sembra essere costituita da una ragnatela a "maglie larghe" - facilmente
"bypassabili" o modellabili - mentre la geometria e la fisica hanno un
"reticolato" più fitto e sottile, sempre sovraordinato dallo logica
("Una dimostrazione conseguita per via analitica ci garantisce senz’altro
della validità di una affermazione, ma non sempre del suo profondo
‘‘perché", ed è questa circostanza che spinge spesso i geometri
a cercare anche dimostrazioni sintetiche quando pure già siano in
possesso di dimostrazioni analitiche", U. Bartocci - R.V. Macrì,
"Il linguaggio della matematica"). In parole più semplici, il formalismo
matematico non è sufficiente ad "omologare" una teoria fisica come
intrinsecamente non contraddittoria. E questo perché il "reticolato"
del formalismo non "copre" totalmente quello della realtà fisica:
questa infatti è avviluppata in una ragnatela fittissima di collegamenti
con ‘‘underlying assumptions" - la "conoscenza tacita") di Polanyi - che
vengono solo implicitamente considerati senza che il formalismo matematico
li "tocchi": con le parole di Bridgman:
"Ogni sistema di equazioni può comprendere solo una piccolissima parte della situazione fisica effettiva: dietro le equazioni vi è uno sfondo descrittivo enorme, tramite il quale esse stabiliscono legami con la natura".
Se si aggiunge a tutto ciò il sentiero opinabile che la matematica della nostra epoca ha intrapreso, frutto di un «Morbus mathematicorum recens» - per citare Frege - che porta al pericolo di una matematica ‘cabalistica’ che, con le parole di Bacone, "generi" e "procrei" la scienza stessa, a quello che altrove ho definito come "dissonanze del pitagorismo moderno", come far ‘‘digerire’’ a cervelli del calibro di Paul Davies che "d’altra parte il senso comune può generare dei nonsense", o a creare nuove strutture matematiche ogni volta che non siano sufficienti quelle già esistenti per "incapsulare’ ogni frammento della conoscenza (spiega candidamente W.I. McLaughlin in "La risoluzione dei paradossi di Zenone sul moto": "Per due millenni e mezzo i paradossi di Zenone sono stati fonte di discussione e oggetto di analisi, ma solo oggi, grazie e una formulazione dell’analisi matematica che è stata sviluppata nell’ultimo decennio, è possibile risolverli"), non c’è da stupirsi se poi tale sentiero sbuchi nella "moderna metropoli" della meccanica quantistica: "La sua teoria, caro signore, è folle, ma non lo è abbastanza per essere vera", queste famose parole di Niels Bohr sono paradigmatiche della "svolta di questo secolo". Con le parole di Penrose:
«La teoria ha due argomenti molto efficaci a suo favore e solo uno, di scarso rilievo, a sfavore. Innanzitutto, la teoria è sorprendentemente esatta rispetto a tutti i risultati sperimentali fino ad oggi ottenuti. In secondo luogo [...] si tratta di una teoria di straordinaria e profonda bellezza dal punto di vista matematico. L’unica cosa, che può essere detta contro di essa, è che, presa in assoluto, non ha alcun senso!».
E passiamo adesso a toccare più specificatamente
la teoria fisica in esame. Lei conosce la mia profonda convinzione di come
la teoria della relatività sia "minata" alle fondamenta da profondi
e inappianabili errori logico-filosofici invisibili all’intuito matematico
ma radiografabili e smascherabili da una "rete epistemica" (un mio neologismo
da lei ben conosciuto) slacciata dal "collare dell’autorità scientificaE
e incontaminata dalla "logica del successo’’. In altre parole, dal mio
punto di vista la relatività risulta non solo una teoria non combaciante
con la realtà fisica (e questa è la parte da lei condivisa)
ma, addirittura, piena di "salti concettuali" e contraddizioni logiche
annidate internamente.
Per esempio, lei sa che l’argomento di Selleri sull’impossibilità
logica di una netta discontinuità - per quanto riguarda la velocità
della luce - tra sistemi di riferimento inerziali e accelerati mi trova
d’accordo (d’altronde ero giunto indipendentemente alle stessa conclusione,
come testimonia un mio lavoro del 97: "Un’interpretazione antirelativistica
dell’esperimento Sagnac").
Tra l’altro, l’argomentazione "fisica" della discontinuità
della velocità della luce si basa in ultima analisi sul "principio
di continuità" di Cartesio-Leibniz, un corollario, questo, del principio
di ragion sufficiente: ecco un esempio di come la fisica sia legata alla
logica - precisamente a quella "logica primordiale" di Cartesio - e di
come la matematica sia inerme di fronte alla semantica o alle questioni
di principio: questo sarebbe il vero senso della baconiana "strumentalità"
della matematica.
Altre "interferenze logiche" si trovano, per citarne alcune,
nel "paradosso dei gemelli" (qui rimando al mio prossimo lavoro: "Sillogismo
di Dingle, Twin and Clock Paradoxes e analfabetismo filosofico"), nel concetto
di campo (il principio di relatività di Einstein - per quanto questi
dichiari che «la teoria delle relatività scaturisce dai problemi
del campo» - è incompatibile con il localismo e quindi con
la realtà del campo, come ho dimostrato nei mio "Asimmetrie antirelativistiche
del campo"), nella presunta relatività della simutaneità
(si veda il mio: "Regarding the Theoretical and Experimental Foundations
of Special Relativity").
La famosa equazione dei fronti d’onda
[x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - c^2t^2 = x’^2 + y’^2 + z’^2 - c^2t’^2]
alla base della "genesi einsteiniana", può trarre in inganno
il matematico del XX secolo, ignaro dello "sfondo descrittivo enorme" (per
l’Einstein del 1905 era addirittura posta come garanzia «che due
principi fondamentali sono tra loro compatibili»! - scavalcando lo
stesso Newton, che era solito non darsi pace se non riusciva a trovare
una "via sintetica"), ma non passerebbe impunemente la "rete" di un vecchio
Platone, un Aristotele o un Euclide.
Sul come e perché la straordinaria massa di scienziati
di questo secolo non abbia avvertito ciò, oltre ad essere con, le
parole di Herbert Dingle:
"One of the most remarkable examples of the paralysis of the intellect by which physics has been afflicted troughout the abandonment by the ‘experimenters’ of the use of their intelligence and their submission to the dictation of mathematicians"
sarà fonte di studi epistemologici per il nuovo millennio che verrà.
Suo RVM
Rocco Vittorio Macrì
c/o Convento Porziuncola
Piazza Martin Luther King, 1/M
06088 S. Maria degli Angeli (Assisi)
Italy
PAUL MARMET
Subject: Re: Inquiry...
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:59:32 -0400
From: Paul Marmet <Paul.Marmet@Ottawa.com>
To: umberto bartocci <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Dear Unberto,
I have spent a few hours reading your paper entitled: "Most common
misunderstanding about Special Relativity (SR)"
I would like you to consider that my comments are purely scientific
but
coming from a real friend. I wish my comments will be considered
as
positive comments.
Let me start by writing that your paper is exactly the sort of things
I
have defended myself several years ago.
Since then, I realised that I have been too much influenced by the
teaching (unique way of thinking) I was forced to listen and repeat to
get my Ph. D. and get a teaching position later.
It is clear that it was not necessary to read all your paper (even
if I
did) to see your conclusion. You paper starts by a big fundamental
mistake. Your fundamental philosophy is wrong (which is the result
of the usual teaching in science). You write:
"Of course, there is no place for questioning the LOGICAL validity
of the
theory, since it presents itself in the quise of a mathemnatical theory.
. . "
Then, you write:
" . . . which allow to transform a physical situation in a mathematical
one, and conversely, . . . "
This is extremely wrong. It is impossible to transform physics
into
mathematics just as it is impossible to transform diagrams, hammers
and
saws into a house. Hammers and saws are tools but you need wood
and bricks to built a house.
After writing that, scientist's thinking is over-focussed forever.
There
is no point to argue any more.
You mean that because the mathematics can give a correct "relationship"
(I agree with this) between the physical elements that have been "assumed",
this proves that the "assumed" physical elements are correct!
That conclusion is clearly wrong. It is the basic error in physics.
Mathematics is not physics. As long as physicists will accept
such errors,
they will spend time showing that their calculation is correct, while
the
correcteness of the calculation is irrelevant. It is useless
to
demonstrate how "logical" the calculation between possibly unphysical
(wrong) hypotheses are. Any discussion becomes then irrelevant.
If the
mathematics is correct, the physics is correct! (what a non sense!).
Most
people do not see the seriousness of the problem in physics because
they
see the logic BETWEEN the relationships, but they do not understand
why the conclusion is physically wrong.
Let me tell you a story. Some time ago, I wrote to a friend about
a worker
in a big industry. That worker had the reputation of being a
thief. Since
the employers could not discover what the employee as stealing, they
decided to search him every day when leaving work. The company
did not want to be stolen. Since he was traveling by bicycle, they
were searching him and also his bicycle everyday. They even dismantle
the bicycle to look inside the frame and inside the tires. Some years
later, after he left his job, they congratulated him because they believed
that he was no longer a thief. However, he admitted that everyday
he was stealing a new bicycle.
This is the way "research" in modern physics is made.
Going back to your paper.
On page 5, (also pages 6. 7 and 8) you write:
Of course, this argument is quite wrong, since alpha is not an inertial
observer in M, . . .
Einstein has never written that the velocity of light is not constant
in a
non inertial frame. In such a case, you should give me a reference.
Since
Einstein claimed the equivalence between gravitational forces and inertial
forces, then the velocity of light should be different against a
gravitational force.
Then on page 10 you write:
. . . the velocity of light is larger than c. ???
As mentioned above, I cannot argue with you on that basis, because
you
prove that because the mathematics is correct you conclude that the
physics is correct. I certainly cannot agree with that. That
proof is completely irrelevant. Because you believe that it is: ".
. . allow to transform a physical situation in a mathematical one "
No discussion ABOUT PHYSICS is possible after that. You
limit the
discussion only to mathematics.
In the example about the thief above, you limit your search to searching
if
the thief was hiding something inside the tires of his bicycle.
In my case I deal with physics. PHYSICS exists by itself.
I do not care
to prove that "mathematics" is correct because "mathematics" is correct.
Nobody can prove you wrong. However, this is useless. We
can discuss
"real physics" later if you like.
The title of your letter was: "Inquiry". I hope this satisfies
the answers
you were asking for. Keep working because you are at the point
I was some years ago. The important point is that you keep thinking
and asking
questions. In a few years from now, you will agree with me.
I hope I am not losing a friend. This is honestly what I think.
I would
certainly love to discuss fundamental physics.
Very Sincerely
Paul Marmet
E-Mail: Paul.Marmet@Ottawa.com
Subject:
Re: ideas upon which all are supposed to agree
Date:
Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:58:10 -0400
From:
Paul Marmet <Paul.Marmet@Ottawa.com>
To:
umberto bartocci <bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it>
Dear Umberto and friends,
With pleasure, I am always carefully reading all the persuasive arguments
from my friends, who (like me) are unhappy with the fact that modern
physics is not compatible with common sense. They want to make
their
contribution to correct the errors of the past. This is very
generous.
To do so, many suggest their own solution but nobody else is allow
to
reconsider "some" of their "exclusive" supreme beliefs. Of course,
those
supreme beliefs are THE IDEAS UPON WHICH ALL ARE SUPPOSED TO AGREE.
This is a very subtle way to claim a dogma. Therefore, they believe
that some "dogma" must be maintained.
=====
There must be no dogma in fundamental research. May be I must
admit that I have one: The result must be compatible with observations.
But, I have another one which is equally indispensable, but it is philosophical.
I believe in "Common Sense". If anything in science is not compatible
with "Common Sense", whatever it is, then that is completely wrong.
Some Nobel laureates clearly stated that Nature is not compatible with
Common Sense. Therefore I believe that they are fatefully wrong on that
point.
At least, you know where I stand.
Since I do not want to lose any of your interesting messages, please
note
that my e-mail address has been changed. My new e-mail is:
Paul.Marmet@Ottawa.com
Let me have the pleasure to read all your interesting messages.
Sincerely,
Paul Marmet
========
Paul Marmet
E-Mail: Paul.Marmet@Ottawa.com
Web site: http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca
DENNIS MCCARTHY
Subject: A Very Good
Argument Against SR.....
Date:
Sat, 9 Oct 1999 18:20:13 EDT
From:
DJMenCk@aol.com
To:
bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it, nc-galeczge@netcologne.de
In a message dated 10/9/99 5:41:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
bartocci@dipmat.unipg.it writes:
"When I asked to you, and to other people sharing our same feelings
AGAINST SR, to indicate what was in their opinion the BEST (and not the
SHORTEST!) anti-relativistic argument, I was sincerely trying to see whether
there existed indeed some really good and still unknown weapons to be used
against "irrationalistic phyisics".
Gentlemen,
I think one of the best arguments favoring a Lorentz-Poincare
ether view of the Lorentz transforms over the SR derivation is the fact
that the Lorentz transforms necessarily follow (this cannot be denied)
for acoustic/media processes when measured by acoustical/media-based instruments.
No one can dispute the validity of the ether/media explanation (i.e., the
natural, Newtonian, fluid dynamic derivation) for these Lorentzian formulas
for acoustic/media processes.
To give a brief example, consider an open-air sound
(or any wave) clock that uses a pulse of sound (or any wave) to measure
time. A single unit of time would be determined by a pulse that moves
from a base to a roof and is reflected back to the base again. If
such a sound clock is strapped to the top of, say, a train that is moving
through the atmosphere, the rate of the sound clock is retarded with respect
to other sound clocks that are stationary in the atmosphere by 1/gamma.
Relativistic Doppler equations also follow for pulses emitted or received
by such sound clocks when in relative motion. If you use both sound
clocks and wind-deformable rulers or "sound rulers" (that contract when
moving with respect to the atmosphere by a factor of 1/gamma,) then the
Lorentz transformations necessarily follow for acoustic processes that
are measured by such instruments. This has been proved mathematically
many times. Thus, all physicists have to agree that the Lorentz transforms
follow for a specific class of media equations for purely Newtonian, Galilean
reasons. Physicists can't deny the correctness of the media explanation
for the Lorentz equations.
An interesting question now arises concerning Newton's
first two principles of reasoning -- which claim that as far as it is possible
you must assume that like effects arise from like causes. Is this
a valid scientific point or is it more scientifically reasonable to assume
that like effects (acoustic and electromagnetic adherence to the Lorentz
equations) are produced by completely different causes (media explanation
for sound